> -----original Message------
> From: JOHN MATHEW
> To: Thomas, John
> Cc: Abraham Philip
> Cc: Sonny Poozhikala
> Cc: Pious Poozhikala
> Cc: Ajith Antony
> Cc: Jomon Kannala
> Cc: Benoy Assarikutt
> Cc: Sabu Mappilasseril
> Subject: Re: Convention Turmoil
> Sent: Nov 10, 2011 6:01 PM
>
> Hi All,
>
> Having spend 7 years+ understanding how church works and the freedom
> faithful have - there are some boundary conditions:
>
> 1. No one forcing any one to be a catholic, however if you want to be
> a Catholic, one need to abide by rules of church
>
> 2. Both Latin church and oriental church including Syro are governed
> by respective Canons
>
> 3.In addition each church have their own rules (eg.
> Palliyoganatapadikal) in addition to Canons.
> 4. Being an autocratic the church act like a cult, each church
> leadership (latin, syro etc.) Will not challenge each other in public
> especially in front of Laity.
>
> 5. Kuri or 'delegation' from prosper pastor is required for marriage
> which is Canon law. However what is not law is placing fee (kudisikha)
> for getting it. WE can challenge the 'fee' not Kuri itself.
>
> 6. Whether we like it or not if baptized before 16, people belong to
> the rite (church) of parents and are subjected to the respective
> rules.
> 7. Changing rite requires and indult, people are afraid to apply
> (Achan's will say it is against catholic faith) and those who
> encourage a switch act against canon. - during our time we did a
> campaign for it and from what I know only 4 families ever applied.
>
> 8. No other sacraments require delegation, however church can require
> proof of being a practicing catholic for becoming a god parent,
> sponsor for confirmation etc. Here also syro priests abuse the law by
> requiring proof from Syro church which can be challenged.
>
> So bottom line is that people should be willing to stand upto abuse.
> We can only point out what is law and what is abuse.
>
> This is the reason inspite of all threats Achan's could not do
> anything to joshua, Liju thottams BIL in Tampa for their kids'
> respective communion and confirmation. Also I know a case where a
> youth required a statement as a proof of owing money, Mutholam himself
> gave kuri without a Fee.
>
> We need a coordinated campaign against the abuse which will reveal the
> empire without cloths!
>
> Shiens
>
>
> On 11/11/11, Thomas, John <John.S.Thomas@morganstanley.com> wrote:
>> I do see that there are some merits on waiting for the cracks in the two
>> Achan groups to develop. However, there are several issues related to
>> mission administration that are giving people real life problems and no one
>> had addressed it. In creating these problems both achan groups are the same.
>> What is troubling to me is that when the Achan group puts the squeeze on the
>> community, specially during times of "Koori", many middle of the roaders or
>> association supporters are left hanging on their own with no guidance or
>> support for a recourse.
>>
>> If lay leadership cannot address matters proactively that would impact
>> community members, then in effect, the direction of the community is set by
>> mission authorities. Ignoring the issues that is hammered on the community
>> arrogantly and without the faintest vision for the community by the missions
>> will be seen by the community as lack of leadership and commitment on the
>> part of lay leadership.
>>
>> I can agree that there is a probability for the cracks in Achan group to
>> evolve in our favor, but at the same time I am pretty sure that the Mar's
>> would get involved along the way to solve that. So waiting for some good to
>> fallout from the cracks in the opposition camp, in my mind, is a timid
>> approach and would show that laity cannot lead and are afraid to address the
>> issues.
>>
>> I really think that your term will really be evaluated on how you addressed
>> the mission matters and if it were effective. If you indeed are serious
>> about addressing the mission related issues, you have to be creative in
>> presenting the matter so that it does not look like a anti Achan move. For
>> that you could think about pointing out the positives in areas where
>> Spiritual heads are not dividing the community and working with the Lay
>> association- mention the priests by name if that would help. Ignoring, the
>> issue, I am afraid, is not an option.
>>
>> Reny
> From: JOHN MATHEW
> To: Thomas, John
> Cc: Abraham Philip
> Cc: Sonny Poozhikala
> Cc: Pious Poozhikala
> Cc: Ajith Antony
> Cc: Jomon Kannala
> Cc: Benoy Assarikutt
> Cc: Sabu Mappilasseril
> Subject: Re: Convention Turmoil
> Sent: Nov 10, 2011 6:01 PM
>
> Hi All,
>
> Having spend 7 years+ understanding how church works and the freedom
> faithful have - there are some boundary conditions:
>
> 1. No one forcing any one to be a catholic, however if you want to be
> a Catholic, one need to abide by rules of church
>
> 2. Both Latin church and oriental church including Syro are governed
> by respective Canons
>
> 3.In addition each church have their own rules (eg.
> Palliyoganatapadikal) in addition to Canons.
> 4. Being an autocratic the church act like a cult, each church
> leadership (latin, syro etc.) Will not challenge each other in public
> especially in front of Laity.
>
> 5. Kuri or 'delegation' from prosper pastor is required for marriage
> which is Canon law. However what is not law is placing fee (kudisikha)
> for getting it. WE can challenge the 'fee' not Kuri itself.
>
> 6. Whether we like it or not if baptized before 16, people belong to
> the rite (church) of parents and are subjected to the respective
> rules.
> 7. Changing rite requires and indult, people are afraid to apply
> (Achan's will say it is against catholic faith) and those who
> encourage a switch act against canon. - during our time we did a
> campaign for it and from what I know only 4 families ever applied.
>
> 8. No other sacraments require delegation, however church can require
> proof of being a practicing catholic for becoming a god parent,
> sponsor for confirmation etc. Here also syro priests abuse the law by
> requiring proof from Syro church which can be challenged.
>
> So bottom line is that people should be willing to stand upto abuse.
> We can only point out what is law and what is abuse.
>
> This is the reason inspite of all threats Achan's could not do
> anything to joshua, Liju thottams BIL in Tampa for their kids'
> respective communion and confirmation. Also I know a case where a
> youth required a statement as a proof of owing money, Mutholam himself
> gave kuri without a Fee.
>
> We need a coordinated campaign against the abuse which will reveal the
> empire without cloths!
>
> Shiens
>
>
> On 11/11/11, Thomas, John <John.S.Thomas@morganstanley.com> wrote:
>> I do see that there are some merits on waiting for the cracks in the two
>> Achan groups to develop. However, there are several issues related to
>> mission administration that are giving people real life problems and no one
>> had addressed it. In creating these problems both achan groups are the same.
>> What is troubling to me is that when the Achan group puts the squeeze on the
>> community, specially during times of "Koori", many middle of the roaders or
>> association supporters are left hanging on their own with no guidance or
>> support for a recourse.
>>
>> If lay leadership cannot address matters proactively that would impact
>> community members, then in effect, the direction of the community is set by
>> mission authorities. Ignoring the issues that is hammered on the community
>> arrogantly and without the faintest vision for the community by the missions
>> will be seen by the community as lack of leadership and commitment on the
>> part of lay leadership.
>>
>> I can agree that there is a probability for the cracks in Achan group to
>> evolve in our favor, but at the same time I am pretty sure that the Mar's
>> would get involved along the way to solve that. So waiting for some good to
>> fallout from the cracks in the opposition camp, in my mind, is a timid
>> approach and would show that laity cannot lead and are afraid to address the
>> issues.
>>
>> I really think that your term will really be evaluated on how you addressed
>> the mission matters and if it were effective. If you indeed are serious
>> about addressing the mission related issues, you have to be creative in
>> presenting the matter so that it does not look like a anti Achan move. For
>> that you could think about pointing out the positives in areas where
>> Spiritual heads are not dividing the community and working with the Lay
>> association- mention the priests by name if that would help. Ignoring, the
>> issue, I am afraid, is not an option.
>>
>> Reny
Knanaya Catholica achanmare, almayare......orakkathil ninu ezhunelkuka.....eee channayakkalude udhesham ningalkku manasilaayoo.......ellavareyum jacoba sumadayathil aakan ulla plan aannu. New yourkil convention kick off nadathiyathu jacoba thirumeni......KCS local unitukalil knanaya jacoba angangal.....metharanmarum achanmarum kannu thurannu knanaya catholicarkku leadership kodukkuu.
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